Weeks 4-6
Please use the comments section to answer questions. Do not try to answer all questions. Try to keep up an average of one per week, with time for a few comments on the ideas of others.
2. The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Why might they believe this? Do you agree? Remember to cite evidence from the text or some other source.
3.Hahn's essay (see critical reader)on The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelleidentifies the motif of the loathly lady, but arguesit has a different purpose than asserting the feminine. What does he think the function of the story is?
4. In the context of Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets, how can we define "conceits"?
5. Discuss what you think is the most striking or outrageous example.
6. What does Revard (1997) suggest about the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression in the English Renaissance?
Question 1:
ReplyDeleteIn the Wife of Bath's Tale, the Loathly Lady is described as "ugly and old" (line 1213) and "there can no man imagine an uglier creature" (line 999). Part of her undesirability also lies in her class: "Descended from such low born lineage." (line 1101) After her transformation, she is now beautiful, but also "...so young moreover." (line 1251)
The focus in the Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnell is more on the Lady's physical characteristics, going into very great detail on the subject. In fact, the majority of the first stanza in the reader is devoted to describing her. It finishes with:
"To recite the foulness of that lady
There is no tongue fit.
She had ugliness to spare." (lines 19-21)
Yikes. However, her appearance is contrasted with the beauty of her horse and the riches with which it is adorned. Later in the tale, the ladies and people of the King's court are very distressed that poor Sir Gawain has to marry such a horrible creature. She, of course, becomes beautiful after Sir Gawain gives her "sovereignty" over him, and they are very much relieved for his sake.
In Steeleye Span, the Loathly Lady is a ghost, still extremely hideous, but more obviously a supernatural being than in the other two. As with Dame Ragnell, part of this Lady's ugliness is expressed in her ability to eat large amounts of food in a disgusting manner.
The Ladies' targets are all similarly repulsed by their wives/lovers horrible appearance, except for Sir Gawain. He is chivalrous to the core. The "lusty bachelor" in the Wife of Bath's Tale is perhaps the most rebellious to his unfortunate marriage, saying: "...little wonder is though I toss and twist about. So would God my heart would burst!" (lines 1102-3)
King Henry is unique among the three in that he never verbally gives sovereignty over himself to the Lady, though his actions certainly show his subservience. Still, it only seems that he does what she asks because he is terrified of her, not because of some revelation of the Ladies' inner beauty/worth.
Good, thorough answer, Adrian.
DeleteHi Adrian,
DeleteSome good examples!
Compared to Steeleye Span and Dame Ragnell, Sir Gawain, in my opinion, is the luckiest one because at least he does not need to be put to death and also he married to a loathly lady who becomes beautiful in the end. Perhaps this is a way to conquer "the lusty bachelor" in the Wife of Bath's Tale.
Q#2 (PART1):
ReplyDeleteThe Wife of Bath’s Tale is among the well-known Canterbury Tales written by Geoffrey Chaucer. It provides insight into the position or role of women in Late Middle Ages. Therefore, some critics point out that The Wife of Bath’s Tale is related to feminism and Chaucer might have been a feminist. This comment will look at the reason why some critics believe this and will also demonstrate the reason why I partly disagree with the statement.
Turing first of all to feminism, it can be seen that the feminization in The Wife of Bath’s Tale might be associated with female sovereignty because women were strong-minded and independent in The Wife of Bath’s Tale. In other words, after the queen and other ladies prayed the King Arthur for grace, the queen of Arthur ‘is authorized to take over the king’s power as ultimate judge’ (Carter, 2003, p. 335). For example,
‘But that the queene and other ladyes mo
So longe preyeden the kyng of grace
Til he his lyf hym graunted in the place,
And yaf hym to the queene, al at hir wille,
To chese wheither she wolede hym save or spille.’ (Line 894-898)
Take another example of the feminization in The Wife of Bath’s Tale,
‘Whan they be comen to the court, this knight
Seyde he had holde his day, as he sayde.
And redy was his answere, as he sayde.
Ful many a noble wyf, and many a mayde,
And many a wydwe, for that they been wise,
The queene hirself sittynge as a justice,
Assembled been, his answere for to here;
And afterward this knight was bode appeere.’ (Line 1023-1030)
It can be seen that because of their wisdom, ‘many a noble wyf’, ‘many a mayde’ and ‘many a wydwe’ all came to the Arthur’s court as well as witnessed and judged the knight’s response. In addition, ‘The queene hirself sittynge as a justice’ means that ‘the head of this feminine body politic is the queen.’ (Carter, 2003, p. 335).
Q#2 (PART2):
ReplyDeleteHowever, Geoffrey Chaucer, in my opinion, was not a feminist but was a humanist. He probably had interest in recording the wide range of people who were varied genders and in different social background. That is to say, he might only record the women he had encountered in his life. Therefore, Chaucer was by no means a feminist. An example can be seen that there were a variety of answers for the ‘women desire’ question, such as ‘wommen loven best richesse’ (Line 925), ‘honour’(Line 926), ‘riche array’ (Line 927) ,and even ‘oftetyme to be wydwe and wedde’(Line 928). I believe that these answers could be the ones he had collected and witnessed during his life. It may also be worth noting that The Wife of Bath’s Tale may also be related to heterosexual which means someone sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex (oxforddictionaries.com). After the knight gave the answer about the ‘women desire’ question to the queen and he also had to keep the promise with the loathly lady. When they got married, the knight usually complained, ’Thou art so loothly, and so oold also.’(Line 1100). However, when his ‘olde wyf’ (Line 1000) gave him two choices: ‘be to yow a trewe, humble wyf’ (Line 1221) or ‘han me young and fair’ (Line 1223), the knight surrendered to his ‘wyf’ (Line 1230). He said,
’ My lady and my love, and wyf so deere,
I put mew in youre wise governance;
Cheseth youreself which may be most plesance
And moost honour to yow and me also.
I do no fors the wheither of the two,
For as yow liketh, it suffiseth me.’ (Line 1230- 1235)
After the loathly lady made the decision, ‘she so fair was, and so yong therto moreover’ (Line 1251).
‘His heart bathed in a bath of bliss.
A thousand tyme a-rewe he gan hire kisse,
And she obeyed hym in everything
That myghte doon hym pleasance or likyng.’ (Line 1253- 1256)
According to Carter (2003), Chaucer’s loathly lady in The Wife of Bath’s Tale might be directly connected to the dynamics of heterosexual and also related to desire, pleasure and frustration. It may also be interesting to note that Chaucer may ‘play with gender in the gap between the book and the body’, which means ‘the Wife’s tale is centrally about liberation from gender role restriction’ (Carter, 2003, p. 329). However, Chaucer might not against the traditional idea of love and romanticism and he may make a link between men and women because females, such as the loathly lady, could become ‘the nexus that ties them together and makes possible the fraternal and hierarchic bonds of chivalric solidarity’ (Hahn, 1995, p.19)
In conclusion, Geoffrey Chaucer might not be a feminist, but he could be a humanist due to the fact that he expressed his experience and insight into his works and tried to make a connection with males and females.
Reference
Carter, S. (2003). Coupling The Beastly Bride And The Hunter Hunted: What Lies Behind in Chaucer’s Wife Of Bath’s Tale. In The Chaucer Review, Vol. 37, No. 4, 2003.
Chaucer, G. (c.1390). The Wife Of Bath.
Hahn, T. (Ed.) (1995). The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle. In Sir Gawain: Eleven Romances and Tales. Kalamazoo, Michigan: Medieval Institute Publications.
Oxforddictionaries.com. Oxford Dictionaries.
Hi Rachel,
DeleteNicely written! Very interesting when you mention that he could be a humanist, although do you think that he believed in the morality of the women in this story despite his depiction of the helpless maiden and unappealing loathly lady?
Hi Tereise,
DeleteThanks for your comment.
From my own point of view, he could be a humanist because he probably had interest in recording the wide range of people who were varied genders and in different social background.
In term of the morality of the women in this story, I do not think Chaucer focused so much on it because he just managed to portray the whole story that he experienced in his life. If he had met helpless men and unappealing loathly 'male', he would depict it in the story as well. :)
Excellent answer,Rachel. Did it occur to you that Chaucer might be mocking women' aspirations. Meaning the reader is intended to laugh at what the woman ask for. Power of men? Crazy!
ReplyDeleteQuestion Five
ReplyDeleteI think the most striking example is probably John Dunne's The Flea. But, honestly, I really can't tell with certainty what exactly he's saying. Is he comparing a flea which has sucked blood from both him and his love interest to the marriage (and consummation) they cannot have? Is he talking about a tryst? Does the flea's bite represent sex? I just don't know because I find the English too difficult to understand; yes, I can get the gist, but to really understand the metaphor I'd need to be able to read it in more depth. I guess I could have looked for a modern translation online, but I decided instead to attempt a "translation" myself. But not of The Flea, because it's too long and frankly, I've never seen some of the words it uses. Instead I went with my second choice for the most striking sonnet, Edmund Spenser's Sonnet Liii.
Sonnet Liii - Re-imagined:
The Panther knows that his spotted hide delights all animals,
but that his fierce features scare them:
he hides his dreadful head in a bush,
letting them gaze unafraid so that he may prey upon them.
My cruel lover/temptress toys with me in a similar fashion,
for with her good-looking figuration,
she lures me to my own destruction,
and then shows me no mercy.
It's a great shame that such a divine view,
one which enhances the world more than anything,
is used to bait those who gaze upon her,
a good thing is tarnished when used this way,
But mercy and beauty are the finest combination of all,
as is best expressed in their Maker.
This exercise really helped me to understand what Spenser is saying - especially in the final four lines. He is not only comparing the temptress to a hunting panther, but actually seems to be reprimanding her (that's if I've updated the English correctly).
Woops, here are the references:
DeleteDunne, J. (1633). The Flea.
Spenser, E. (1595). Sonnet Liii.
What a great exercise! This was very useful as a way to understand the poem. Yes, the flea is more difficult.You can always google explanations of the poems.
DeleteThe wife of Bath’s tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. From a subjective point of view, it can be said that indeed Chaucer endorsed feminist ideologies, however, there are several points that counter this idea.
ReplyDeleteChaucer is seen to be supporting feminist ideologies by giving voice to female characters in the Wife of Bath's Tale. The knight is handed to the queen after he falls from grace by his alleged rape of the maiden. Chaucer writes “and yaf hym to the queene, al at hir wille, to chese whither she wolde hym save or spille (897-898). The feminine jury which is selected to decide the knights fate is seen as a prerogative of justice where power is redistributed to women of the court whilst placing the knights of the court in the shadows (Carter, 2003). By giving the power to a female persona shows a matriarchal structure rather then that of patriarchy and thus shows Chaucer to be supporting women. On the one hand this seems as if Chaucer was giving voice to women by placing them in authority. However, the queen and her ladies had to beg the king for grace. Chaucer wirites “but that the queen and other ladyes mo so long preyeden the kyng of grace”(894-895). This shows the authority belongs with men and even the queen must beg to her king to be allowed a voice.
Feminist ideals are also propagated by Chaucer when the knight is summoned to find out what it is that women desire most. “I grante thee lyf, if thou kanst tellen me what thing is it that women moost desiren” (Chaucer, 904-905). This again gives power to women as the knight must go to women to find the answer. Power once again falls to women when the knight succumbs to the old hag for the answer. Chaucer’s idea that what women desire most is sovereignty over men however, is counter feminist. Where on one hand he places women in power, he also strips women of respect by labeling them as manipulative beings.
The wife is characterized by a preoccupation with sex, which she uses to manipulate her husband. Chaucer shows the wife to use sex in order to manipulate and gain control over her husband. “kys me,” quod she, “we be no longer wrothe, for, by my trouthe, I wol be to yow bothe this is to seyn, ye bothe fair and good.” This highlights the role of women in medieval times as objects of pleasure rather than subjects of desire. Women are shown to use their sexuality as a means to gain control over their husbands, thus, portraying anti feminist views. The wife’s transformation into a beautiful lady shows her voice did not matter, that what mattered most is her physical beauty. The knight did not desire to have her until the prospect of physical beauty made her a desirable object for him to attain.
Although the wife, to those that view Chaucer as endorsing feminist ideologies, is empowering women she however, is a character that is in conflict with herself. She proclaims that “women desrien to have sovereynetee as wel hir housbond as hir love, and for to been in maistrie hym above” (Chaucer 1038-1040). After the knight allows her to choose if she would either be old and faithful or young and beautiful and a happy ending is secured, she submits to his will and relinquishes her power and falls into submission. Therefore showing that although the wife calls for female empowerment in theory, she does not prescribe to it in practice. These conundrums demonstrate how the wife both consciously and unconsciously endorses the misogynistic role she is fighting against as a whole (Hansen, 1992).
Carter, S. (2003). Coupling the beastly bride and the hunter hunted: What lies behind Chaucer’s wife of bath’s tale. The Chaucer Review, 37(4), 81-97. Retrieved from http://muse.jhu.edu
Chaucer, G. (c.1390). The Wife Of Bath.
Hansen, E. T. (1992). Chaucer and the fictions of gender. Berkeley: University of California Press.
A thoughtful comment.Have you thought that Chaucer might be mocking women, by showing them to have unrealistic expectations?
DeleteNicely written! I agree with most of your points, though it seems to me that Chaucer himself was a product of his era to some degree, as we all are, and therefore his concessions to women may have been quite revolutionary at the time. Of course, if he was mocking them like Mike says, maybe not...
DeleteThanks Adrien, i think through a modern lense it does seem revolutionary but putting it into context of the era it was written it is more of a piece that serves another agenda. The mockery of women is evident as women did not have many rights in the middle ages, so for women to demand rights is mockery in itself.
DeleteAnother account to consider is the political context in which it was written. The knight, Sir Gawain, has been identified in early welsh literature as Gwalchmai, who has an extraordinary ability to grow stronger towards midday. He was a heroic figure in Welsh literature, however, Chaucer's portrayal of Gwaine in the Wife of Bath's Tale reduces the character to a rapist and as being controlled by women. Thus, in a political context Chaucer can be seen as mocking Welsh men as being under the rule of women.
Hi Saajida,
DeleteA well executed analysis! I do agree with you reply to Adrian in the sense that this tale is displays the inferiority towards women in the middle ages. Chaucer has also made the victim a woman, thus showing her inability to protect herself. It does seem like a waste when the loathly lady did what the knight wanted in the end thus emphasizing the submissive nature women were put under.
Your comment about Sir Gawain is very interesting and insightful!
2) The Wife of Bath's Tale is a renown tale from Geoffrey Chaucer's collection of "Canterbury Tales." It provides insight into the role of women in the medieval times hence why some critics believe that Chaucer's tale expose him as a feminist whilst others would counter this ideology stating otherwise.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of applying this tale to feminism, it is evident that Chaucer has given the main voice to the women as we are given the Wife of Bath in the prologue, the maiden being the victim, the sovereign and ruler being King Arthur's wife and the Loathly lady being the solution to the Knight's long-awaited question he had been searching for a year.
In The Wife of Bath's Prologue, the Wife is portrayed as an experienced, promiscuous and overly sexual individual in the sense that she questions women's place in society through biblical references to Abraham and Jacob stating that they were holy men but "...ech of hem hadde wyves mo than two"(line 57), thus Chaucer questions this ideology in the sense that men can have multiple wives and sustain their status whereas women doing the same are seen as promiscuous and disobedient towards their male consort, thus he could be using the Wife of Bath as a pioneer for the rights of women since they aren't given a voice. Nevertheless, she makes multiple references to God to justify her judgment, "God bad us for to wexe and multiplye;"(line 28) thus her having multiple husbands is abiding to the Lord's will. Chaucer uses this as an expression to inform us that women should be given equal rights and that God's will for women should solidify our judgment towards them. However, Chaucer could be making a mockery out of her character in the sense that she is whining about men's rights over hers for no deeper reason other than to make herself feel good hence making her points invalid and laughable. It also appears that Chaucer wants his readers to laugh at her pro-feminist stances on life since she is trying to justify her bad behavior by using the Bible, a text associated with the male authority so Chaucer could be parading her contradicting prologue and exaggerating that this is everything a man does not want in a woman.
In Wife of Bath's tale, we see the victim being an innocent maiden whose Maidenhead was taken away from the knight, this is highly invasive and Chaucer puts men under a negative light in the sense that they're ignoring the woman's right to her own privacy and instead following their sexual desires. It seems that Chaucer wants the reader to understand the intensity of male superiority over women in his time and uses his story to bring justice for innocent women such as the maiden. Nevertheless, Chaucer further parades feminism ideals as he gives women full sovereignty since the Queen makes the last judgment for the knight's sentence as she and other ladies prayed King Arthur spare the knight, he abides to their wishes saying "...yaf hym to the queene, al at hir wille," (line 897) so by making her the dominant character in this tale proves that despite her gender, Chaucer wants to reinforce her significance since she gives morality and purpose to her sentence as opposed to executing the knight impulsively. According to Dinshaw (1989), despite the fact that Chaucer was born and lived during the medieval times which paraded masculine superiority, he gives his readers the option— to “imagine feminine desire, feminist readings, and the reform of patriarchy” (117), thus saying that he aims to promote feminism ideals but in a subtle way that is through his Canterbury tales seeing being open about it in his time would put his status and career at risk.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSECOND HALF:
ReplyDeleteHowever, one could argue that women are used as sexual objects in this tale seeing as the maiden was sexualised by the knight, yet the Loathly lady still abides to the Knights wants by providing him with a beautiful wife and fulfilling his sexual desires, so is it really a tale of justice since the knight who raped a maiden still lived a life of content? "Thanne have I gete of yow maistrie," quod she, "Syn I may chese and governe as me lest?", this quote could say she governs her husband but is giving him what he wants in terms of lust and sexual desire really governing or simply submissive to his male traits? Peter G. Beidler(1998)talks about writer Elaine Hansen in that “Hansen elaborates further on her view that the Wife of bath is the product of a male writer who reproduces and reinforces male attitudes” (p. 273-89), thus saying that Chaucer could simply be excusing male behavior in the sense that the Knight's punishment was not harsh enough for what he did to the maiden and that in the end he still received a life of content due to the Loathly Lady abiding to his wishes of having a beautiful wife. There is some injustice there for the maiden but then again, male superiority was a common thread in his time so this would be a normality unlike if it was brought up in Postmodern times.
In conclusion, although Chaucer may have wanted to bring more awareness to the different hierarchies of women or to put them in a bigger light than usual, I do believe that he was not a feminist in the sense that he was simply a writer who wrote in a time when women were oppressed, abused, and submissive to men so his tales were to be built around that agenda because although he does not place the males in a positive light in this tale, he does still explore the compliant nature of women.
References:
Beidler, P., Biebel, E., & Chaucer, G. (1998). Chaucer's Wife of Bath's prologue and tale (pp. 273-289). Toronto: University of Toronto Press.
Dinshaw, C. (1989). Chaucer's sexual poetics (p. 117). Madison, Wis.: University of Wisconsin Press.
The Wife of Bath's Prologue and Tale. Retrieved from https://sites.fas.harvard.edu/~chaucer/teachslf/wbt-par.htm#TALE